Is Civilization Collapsing?

[SerethiaFalcon]

Being negative, without offering reasonable solutions, does nothing for the world.

[MythOfProgress]

Mythofprogress, you've disagreed or at least refused to agree with every single point he brought up.

any of the points that i didn't mention, i already agreed with and didn't see much of a point to criticizing.

any of the ones i found questionable(as in, there isn't a good source of information for this or reputable studies to back up what their saying as far as i've looked)-i asked what their source was.

the ones i disagreed with, have evidence and/or explanations as to why this isn't the case and so me having a position on this is the same as me having a position on the temperature or the weather, the facts pretty much speak for themselves. if they aren't willing to engage with the facts or reconcile them into their views, there's not much i can say besides engaging with it on good faith and hope they are willing to listen as opposed to settling for theoretical concepts that aren't grounded in reality.

You seem to believe that things are getting worse in every way, which is just as unlikely as a belief system that says everything is getting better. Do you acknowledge that your own way of thinking is biased?

without any basis for it, sure, there's definitely some bias to be had in catastrophizing everything- but i'm literally pointing out the signs(giving links and evidence to the best of my ability) and being mostly rational in the way i approach my arguments and yet- im getting smoke as certain folk keep re-contextualizing these events and processes as "everything is fine, we're just going through some turbulence".

[MythOfProgress]

Exactly. Who are you expecting to fix your misery for you? Me? Society?

not talking about me, about society in general. i'm not surprised that i guessed right, this whole hyper-individualistic, capitalist thinking is one of the major problems in our society and contributor to the mental health crisis we have, when people focus on themselves and themselves solely- we will have a bunch of folks with the philosophy of "i got mine, f*ck everyone else" as they try to reach for success, stepping on anyone else they deem unimportant because that's just the name of the game.

IMO unless one can fix their own life they shouldn't have a saying how a civilization should be arranged. Start small, things will be more approachable.

continuing on from my original point, for anyone who does have that success- they will almost always rig the game in their favor as a logical extension of the individualistic, neo-liberal thinking i've mentioned earlier, this opens the door for taking advantage of lower-class folk and taking profits for themselves, evading taxes in anyway they can and lobbying certain laws into existence so they won't be as held accountable. you cannot "fix" your life if you are being cheated and unfairly disadvantaged as result of conditions you can't change(race,sex, gender, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, disability, etc). if you really want there to be a true meritocracy, then you won't pretend as if there aren't differences between certain folk and hold them accountable while lifting up our most vulnerable.

Non-ironically: clean your room.

i also wouldn't be surprised if you listen to Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro.

Civilization isn't collapsing, your view of it is... fix it if you can.

If you say so.

've shared the indexes so that you can see that while some are in misery, some are thriving; most are average. For someone with an average g-factor living in a developed world this is certainly a choice, although a long-term one.

struggling is the norm, got it. and f*ck everyone else in the developing countries, got that too.

[MythOfProgress]

Being negative, without offering reasonable solutions, does nothing for the world.

Being positive(even when there is no reason to be), while offering bad solutions, is far worse in the long-run of things.

[Nero]

Being negative, without offering reasonable solutions, does nothing for the world.

Being positive(even when there is no reason to be), while offering bad solutions, is far worse in the long-run of things.

Actually neither does anything for the world, as a bad solution is not a solution. Come on man basic logic.

[Nero]

without any basis for it, sure, there's definitely some bias to be had in catastrophizing everything- but i'm literally pointing out the signs(giving links and evidence to the best of my ability) and being mostly rational in the way i approach my arguments and yet- im getting smoke as certain folk keep re-contextualizing these events and processes as "everything is fine, we're just going through some turbulence".

Because you are catastrophizing everything. Nothing that exists today effects the majority of the human population in the way that things like an actual world war or smallpox or Spanish Flu or the fucking Black Death. You have literally 0 concept of human history and can only see things in a binary black and white manner where up until now things were fine and now everything is irreversibly ruined even though compared to effectively all of human history this is the best time to live on average.

[Lorem Ipsum]

Can you move the discussion here to https://futuretimeline.net/forum/viewto ... f=5&t=2567 ?

[SerethiaFalcon]

-Removed post-
The discussion was resolved on my end.

[MythOfProgress]

While pessimism is good in some respects and you need both pessimists and optimists, in my own experience, those that are the loudest complainers in my life (as an example), never bring any solutions to the problems they complain about. I lose respect for them because they use their voice only to complain, but don't follow it with any actions in their real life when there are quite simple solutions in some cases. Even where the case is not simple, there are still actions to be taken. If all that energy that goes into complaining could be used for brainstorming solutions and ways to change the world, there would be a lot more progress being made.

you'll find that under the side of most pessimists, they'll almost always be disappointed idealists who tried to do things the "right way", that means voting for your representatives, joining protests and being activists, cleaning the garbage left in beaches and streets, advocating for green energy such and such.

for every person that tries to "solve" the problem, there is someone else that profits off that problem not being solved, as well as added caveats that complicate the whole situation when it comes to certain solutions. if the cure is worse than the poison, do we take it or no? our ability for action is limited, for we are one in a sea of millions(if not billions) that are aware of the issue, but would rather not do anything about because(quite frankly) it's too difficult and harrowing to think about and so people are free to just deny,rage,bargain the reality, which is that we live in an emergent system of civilization- where there isn't really anyone in control and we just have people making their best plays based on the deck of cards they have.

ironically, Kurzgesagt has a pretty good video on this that explains the nature of this in action.

don't get me wrong, i'm all for community-based solutions, going for low-tech or political solutions that understand we can't fix things technologically, they aren't as subject to the magical thinking, con artistry, or get-rich quick schemes that i've witnessed and observed in some of the climate change fighting projects/technologies i've heard of, but it's not the mainstream thought. you take a good look at the media and news and they will almost always encourage the system of neoliberal thought, trying to get rich or promoting fantasies that our civilization is sustainable and can last for as long as we want it to.

that being said, i'm not really a fan of the centrist notion of "both sides are wrong/right", it's possible for someone to be actually correct(or as close as can be) and for the other person to be wrong. i'm sorry to hear the people in your life haven't done much in terms of solving problems, but generalizing that to everyone else isn't really something i'd suggest.

2. Anytime people talk about these kinds of things, I always think that this makes it so suicide is actually a virtue. Because killing oneself is better than the burden their humanity places on Earth. Since everything is hopeless, there would be no point in living. That's what I mean. If you kill any kind of hope, while a pessimist might be able to survive, most others would not. It is why humans have irrational hope sometimes. It helps them survive. I mean, if one wants humanity to commit mass suicide then have at it. But, I think that kind of subverts the original message.

i'm not here to encourage it, nor am i to glorify it, but it is an option people can/will take when their lives become unbearable.

when the present life you have is mostly suffering, with your future prospects slowly withering before your eyes as the reality sets in that this pain you are experiencing(be it physical, emotional, mental, economic) will be constant and consistent throughout the remainder of your life(provided there aren't any adequate ways of alleviating, managing and coping with it), would you want to stick around for this? do you want someone to be in suffering just for the comfort of others and the fact that it makes some people uncomfortable?

not talking about it, is tantamount to not talking about the big ass elephant in the room that's right next to us- not talking about things through the framework of existential despair will make some people feel as if they are alone in what they are observing and feeling in regards to current events,

that being said, i'm not gonna push aside the risk of contagion when it comes to talking about matters like these, people will definitely be depressed, angry and sullen about having to hear about how things aren't as hopeful as we expected, but do you want them to be caught off-guard with a pikachu face as certain events and processes take hold in our society and they begin to realize things aren't as nice and dandy as they seem on the surface? i'm doing a cost-benefit analysis, and the benefit is greater than the cost.

Besides, humanity has already passed through some population bottlenecks in our deep past. There is no reason to think some might survive, and if not, well then, some other form of life will survive.

like the video and article mention, our society is radically different to what it was in the past, a collapse back then meant a society dying, withering away or transforming into something else but without any affect on other civilizations, today we are globally interconnected and rely on various supply chains for survival, we've centralized most of our important operations(whether it be food, water, oil or other resources) and source it to other countries, if they are affected, so are we.

if America catches a cold, the entire world gets sick just on the fact alone that we make up a significant portion in the global economy(not that this is a support for the idea of American Exceptionalism or euro-centric ideals). our biosphere is dying, and we have an inability to acknowledge this as what it is, the greatest engineered mass extinction of our time/

we've been able to artifically inflate our carrying capacity and population levels through the use of artificial fertilizers and fossil fuels in industrial agriculture, but haven't adjusted ourselves accordingly and eventually we'll encounter a period of starvation/famine once we run out of one or both of the aforementioned tools we've used.

combining this with our rapidly changing climate that heads for temperatures that are unsuitable for most forms of life does not bode well for our case. the idea that some other form of life will persist is true, jellyfish and any extremophile creatures may be able to persist in light of the climate collapse, but any idea that intelligent form of life will evolve is questionable, we(as humans, primates) evolved on timescales that are extremely long(ranging in the billions) and by the time our climate stabilizes from the hothouse earth period or becomes once again suitable for life, it will most likely be affected by the sun, which would be a little brighter in the first billion or so years but the brightness(more precisely the heat energy that's generated) is enough to trigger a runaway greenhouse effect and become a planet not unlike Venus.

any hydrocarbons we've already released probably wouldn't compare to this, but we've taken most of the cheap and easy oil that any potential civilizations that come after us will not have the same access to energy that we do.

go a further 2 billion or so years, the brightness will be turned up even more and heat energy increases thereby boiling most if not all of the water on earth and turning it to another hot, dry planet as the conditions for life are eliminated.

by the time we reach 5 billion years, the sun will have been approaching or entered its red giant phase, most likely roasting the earth if not engulfing it in its entirety. anything else, i leave up to the astronomers.

All we are hyperventilating about is that human civilization will not be able to survive...it's still all about humans. Which is fine, it's just that, it's not like the entire universe is ending or something. Life will continue somewhere else most likely at some point. No one will be around to care about what humans did in their tiny lifetimes anyway. So, for now, I mean, the pessimism doesn't match the scale of us as lifeforms, measly dots on a tiny planet in a tiny solar system in one of millions of galaxies. If our existence is an experiment, in a sense, then, if we fail, oh well. It is what it is.

this is nice and all, but this is all said from the comfort and safety of our homes, when you are experiencing tragedy, loss, pain in their full force you're not gonna be concerned with how vast the universe is, you'll be concerned with the suffering and asking the inevitable question, why me? not gonna turn down the notion that some form of alien life might exist out there, but it's so far-removed and distant from affecting me or my immediate surroundings that i don't care about that as much as i would my own environment and other species on the planet.

One of my memories that I always go back to is the kind of "vision" I had as a child, touching the mud walls of huts that were modeling how some of the tribes once lived in Kenya, and remembering some of the literature/stories. Then, seeing in my mind's eye, a crackling fire with that charcoaly dust smell that instantly takes me back there. An elder, mzee, is speaking to children and they are sitting enraptured by his tales of long ago stories passed down from generation to generation. The children's faces are so expressive as he takes them on journeys in the mind of places and experiences they have yet to see or know. After the stories are finished and the children have long since gone to bed, I look up in wonder at the night sky, how brilliant and full of stars the sky is. And, I think about the human experience and am enchanted by the feeling of an ancient place, one that takes us back to the beginning of humans on Earth. I have seen the struggles, experienced some of them myself, and yet, there is a joy to existence even in the bleakest of fates, sometimes, when one least expects to experience joy. It is not to deny humanity's shadowed pasts and behaviors needing to be changed or the wildness and unpredictability of nature, but rather, it walks hand in hand with simple laughter and human joys. That to me is the human experience. It is neither bad nor good, it just is.

it's a beautiful memory, thanks for sharing.

[MythOfProgress]

Can you move the discussion here to https://futuretimeline.net/forum/viewto ... f=5&t=2567 ?

???
did you mean to refer to another topic?

[Lorem Ipsum]

Can you move the discussion here to https://futuretimeline.net/forum/viewto ... f=5&t=2567 ?

???
did you mean to refer to another topic?

Yes, sorry. I thought I was in this thread:
https://futuretimeline.net/forum/viewto ... &start=140

[joe00uk]

Is civilisation collapsing? Kind of, but it would be more accurate to say that industrial civilisation is declining. That decline, by the way, isn’t happening everywhere all at once in the same way. It’s a very long and uneven process which has winners and losers of its own, as well as periods of crisis and periods of partial recovery and renewed stability. It happens in something like a stair step pattern.

[wjfox]

Is civilisation collapsing? Kind of, but it would be more accurate to say that industrial civilisation is declining. That decline, by the way, isn’t happening everywhere all at once in the same way. It’s a very long and uneven process which has winners and losers of its own, as well as periods of crisis and periods of partial recovery and renewed stability. It happens in something like a stair step pattern.

When do you think the decline began? When was industrial civilisation's "peak"?

[wjfox]

- the Great Coral Reef is flourishing

I don't have time to read through this entire thread, but I just have to say, this specific point simply isn't true.

There was a temporary recovery recently, but only in certain parts of the Reef. The overall, long-term situation is catastrophic and will likely result in 99% of the Reef vanishing by 2050.

Corals are very, very sensitive to temperature and ocean acidity. It might be possible to save some parts via technological means, e.g. 3D printed corals as we've seen demonstrated recently, or perhaps relocating them to deeper waters. But the Reef certainly isn't "flourishing" right now – several major and unprecedented bleaching events have occurred in the last 20 years, and ocean temperatures continue to increase rapidly.

P.S. It's Great Barrier Reef.

[funkervogt]

You seem to believe that things are getting worse in every way, which is just as unlikely as a belief system that says everything is getting better. Do you acknowledge that your own way of thinking is biased?

without any basis for it, sure, there's definitely some bias to be had in catastrophizing everything

It's bad to be so comfortable with your own biases.

[joe00uk]

When do you think the decline began? When was industrial civilisation's "peak"?

In general, I would say most aspects of the decline began around the 1970s in the Western world with the oil crisis and stagflation. On the other hand, for countries like China, I would say their decline hasn't even started yet because they've been able to prosper from the decline of the West. Their time will come, but probably not for a number of decades. Like I say, it's all very uneven.

[SerethiaFalcon]

-Removed post-
Not needed anymore. The discussion is completed and resolved on my end.

[MythOfProgress]

I'll just say this, you are coming at life from an atheistic or materialist perspective, but I don't have such views, so I don't have the same perspective as you on dying and such. So, we won't see eye to eye on that

Taking a second reading at your 2nd reply, there is one thing that catches my eye, which is the part where you mentioned "All we are hyperventilating about is that human civilization will not be able to survive...it's still all about humans. Which is fine, it's just that, it's not like the entire universe is ending or something. Life will continue somewhere else most likely at some point. No one will be around to care about what humans did in their tiny lifetimes anyway. So, for now, I mean, the pessimism doesn't match the scale of us as lifeforms, measly dots on a tiny planet in a tiny solar system in one of millions of galaxies. "
for one, i don't recall myself saying anything about being primarily worried about humans, it's the various other species and lifeforms on the planet that didn't exactly get a chance at survival, sure you could always talk about plenty of species that have gone extinct in the past and i'll argue that they didn't have much of a choice in that matter compared to now, where we as human beings have the exceptional ability for reasoning and thinking on time-scales far beyond our own, manipulating the world- to which we have the ability to be stewards(not rulers) of our planet and engage in more sustainable practices that would have us last longer than we would by operating on more extractive processes.

two, this reads more like a disassociative/depersonalized, nihilistic take more than it does come across as a spiritual, if not pantheistic way of viewing our world, so if you would like to elaborate more on your perspective, i'm all for it.

three, i don't recall saying anything about how i feel in regards to death, merely pointing out the dying process of our civilization and while you may have come to terms with something like this in the form of acceptance or resignation, plenty of others are still in the process of denial, anger or bargaining and plenty of others have not even begun the process of grief. leaving a few pointers and explainations as to why this is, isn't really gonna hurt anyone in the long-run of things.

I have been suicidal as recently as 2020, and before that, it was 2010. I have also known many people who have been suicidal in my life (one who I actually witnessed in the throes of a bad liver due to taking too many pills). That is why I bring up that issue. For people trying to cling to life, it is very bad (in my opinion) to encourage their suicidalness. Sometimes, things can't be helped, but, if someone is trying to survive but fighting an uphill battle, it is like the floor being taken from under them. But, do with that information what you will.

im sorry to hear that you've struggled with this, it's understandable (or as understandable as can be when faced with a world like ours), but i'll restate what i've said-which is i dont want people to kill themselves-merely understand that this is something they will resort to when most if not all options have been exhausted, when the conditions for helping people in a world like ours have shrinked if not become eliminated entirely (like in the mental health crisis we currently experience, the healthcare systems collapsing, communities perishing so that individuals remain and don't have support systems to rely on or the inability for most government services to treat, manage or help folks in the way they were originally designed to) are you going to keep someone who is in pain, on life support? you have to take into account someone's quality of life, and if they are in pain(in a way that can't be alleviated, managed or coped with effectively so that their quality of life is acceptable) do you keep them around? i'm not advocating for people to start jumping off rooftops and blowing their heads off,it's a tragedy when things like these happen, but you have to give grace for people who feel that way and understand if their circumstances in life will not allow for them to improve their conditions and want to escape the only way they know how.

But, some of the even more isolated tribes that remain would go on with life as usual. Not all of humanity is interconnected with the US or the modern world, just most. Some groups of people are much closer to a non-modern way of living, so they would more easily transition than cities and more modernized, technology-dependent groups of people.

that's my entire point, that even the tribes that haven't participated in the extractive ways of the modern world will be victim to the abrupt climate change that will occur in our lifetimes, our biosphere is dying and so they won't have any other way of hunting or gathering food as most if not all our ecosystems will have died off, so they'll be subject to the same careening temperatures that will level off and make for unsuitable environments.

You care about intelligent life existing, but I don't. It would be sad for humanity to die sure, and there may be no intelligent life forms left, but that's our own fault, and if it wasn't oh well. I don't care about that stuff in the same way you do. Universes go through changes all the time. It is what it is. Nothing to hyperventilate about, for my own worldview. I value life itself, even if it is unintelligent, but, things change all the time. We will suffer for what seems like an eternity but is only a brief moment, then it's over.

i care about most forms of life, not just intelligent, you can pretend to be the cool, depersonalized nihilist(or not, feel free to explain your perspective) that isn't affected on the grounds of "vastness" but keep in mind people will suffer, wither and die as time goes on, you are part of Earth whether you like it or not, this is something you'll observe and be witness to as the times go on.

You also seem to assume I am naive and have never suffered. Maybe I haven't suffered as much as others, but I have seen suffering up close and personal, in ways that people in the US haven't seen (at least some haven't seen, yet). It aggravates me how many times in my life it seems people assume I've had it easy and that I have no idea what death is like (despite being present when someone has been near death several times/struggling with the desire for death myself).

never said that you haven't experienced adversity, merely that its easy to take a bird's eye view of people's suffering when in comfort- that said it's unfortunate you've had to go through suicidal urges and see folks being near death.

Most recently, in 2020, there was a time I had an illness but was confused about my state's covid rules, so I stayed home, and one night, I struggled to breathe and thought I wouldn't wake up in the morning. My life flashed before my eyes in a sense, but my suffering didn't mean I forgot about the cosmos. It is actually difficult for me to be physically and mentally present sometimes unless I am going through extreme pain. Even then, I get used to it after a while, due to the fact that I have a lot of emotional pain, so physical pain is just an added thing. More recently, I had some bad disease that caused me to get a temperature of 103, almost. While my life didn't flash before my eyes, I did almost have to go to the hospital.

it's interesting when you mentioned the part of you not being present sometimes, if you dont mind me asking- is this a common occurrence and if so has it ever been diagnosed? cause that sounds a lot like the depersonalization/disassociative state i've mentioned a few times before.

Also, I always say I'm on borrowed time because I am. I got extremely suicidal in my college years and tried to run away from school. Almost entered into a stranger's car, because I just wanted my life to end and I didn't care if I was trafficked or whatever. But, a voice told me no. My hand was literally hovering close to the handle of the people's car. Then, I got completely abandoned at the hospital ward by my school, because they did not handle my situation appropriately and I didn't realize what was going on. Try being completely and utterly alone while you are in a state of shock/PTSD, with strangers asking you questions and getting tested with who knows what, and then being put in an area that you aren't allowed to get out of on your own. Your life being completely controlled by strangers. All with the confusion brought upon you by not understanding what was going on due to the shock and PTSD. I was lucky because my family did show up (some of them), but it still felt like abandonment because nobody was with me for quite a while, through the most difficult parts, and there were other issues, but anyway.

Also, try being dragged from one country to another, put on display constantly like you are some kind of doll for a church to admire, knowing if you act up, the consequences will be severe for everyone. You don't even have a home in your home country, you just bounce around between grandparents and the occasional temporary house. By the age of ten or so, you have moved houses, which sometimes includes different states or countries at least ten times. Sometimes when you return to your home country, you don't even recognize your own relatives. And, every time you move, you leave behind everything that was familiar, that you knew, that you cared about. And suddenly, you are in a new place, and you never feel like everyone else inside but you learn to be a chameleon. The only constant is your family and your religion. Then your family leaves you at college in a culture that you hadn't been in for four years, to try to cope on your own. It feels like abandonment. Eventually, you end up abandoning your religion too for a different path, which creates a kind of turmoil in your family, so that is no longer a stable point either. So basically, you have reset your entire foundation in life. You have no place that feels like home, no family that you can connect with well (and eventually reject), and only a partner (who has gone through extreme trauma themselves, what most people never see in a lifetime) and a barely hanging-on type of existence. That's been my life in a nutshell. It's not to say I haven't made wrong choices, or that I could have done some things better. But, it's just that, I've been through a lot of shit. Some self-caused, and some not. And that's not to count all the things I've seen and experienced living in a culture vastly different from the one I was from as well. Despite all I've been through, I still have the perspective that my suffering is but a drop in a sea of vast proportions. I'm but a speck that will be here and then will be gone. I can agree that most humans, they cannot get out of their suffering to see the bigger picture, but since some of my suffering is nearly constant, getting out of my head into the bigger picture helps me sometimes and is easier for me to do than most.

it's definitely difficult, coping with all of these life-changing events/processes especially when they happen fast, practicing mindfulness techniques tends to help best for some though.

Personally, I think pessimism is something only people who can afford to think philosophically engage in.

everyone is capable of philosophical thought, it's just the world we live in doesn't always allow for this to be the case, usually due to time constraints and trying to survive on a day-to-day basis.

I rarely met anyone in my life who was poor and engaged in the kind of pessimism I see on the internet.

, if someone is focused merely on survival-they definitely aren't going to think about things in a philsophical manner because they can't for the moment. it's basic maslow's hierachy of needs, someone is going to be more focused on fulfilling their physiological needs more than they are focused on self-actualization and philosophizing as a concept.

In fact, I would say, if the poor person had a community and took joy in the little things, they were probably happier than the wealthier people. Doesn't mean their lives couldn't have improved further, only to say that ignorance of how bad things really are can sometimes be bliss.

another point i've been trying to make, anomie has become the norm in our society, we're been experiencing this for quite a while and our support networks have fallen apart, which contributes to the loneliness epidemic we've witnessed.

On the contrary, when people go through great suffering, it is hope, not despair that usually has them moving forward. Either that or a kind of numb-forced existence. But, it is surprising how people with very little or who suffer a lot, can bounce back if they have community support. I find that a loving or supportive community is more common in how miserable or not miserable people are, rather than other factors.

false hope sets people back in terms of accepting and coming to terms with the eventual fate which is our death, subsuming folks in despair is not the primary goal although its going to be a major part of the process when it comes to the eventualities we'll experience. anything i've said before about the community support, is reflected in my prior statements and how this is something that's been caused by our hyper-individualistic culture.
while im not entirely of the buddhist philosophy, i understand the impermanence of our society and understanding that suffering is part of our lives, that being said- i'm not about to start dismissing the ways we can minimize said suffering.

[erowind]

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[Tadasuke]

I'm not going to waste more time on negativity. If you want to be negative, then that's your choice, you feel worse and achieve nothing substantial.


I'm currently on a bicycle trip and shouldn't be writing. After that I will be talking with a friend for an hour, about AI and anime. And then I will be watching an 80s anime I prepared some time ago. I'm not going to waste half a day or so on pointless negativity that only brings misery. You know why there is so much mental health issues? Partially because of all that negativity that is around.

I literally don't know a single person who isn't better off economically compared to 20 years ago, despite Covid. My grandma says that her every subsequent washing machine was cheaper compared to what money she gets than the previous one. River in our city is cleaner than 20 years ago. My parents friend who is a major local real estate developer says that they easily sell what they are building. Everywhere I look around me things are richer than they were 20 years ago. There is less crime and less pollution because of less polluting cars and renewable energy. Everywhere something new is being built or renovated. Solar panels have become exponentially more noticeable. Everything where I live is better than it was 20 years ago: lights, paint on walls, the windows, furniture, chair, the floor, the door, amount of stuff, the PC, the laptop etc.

As I'm waiting for my smartphone to charge, I will write that it's much much easier to point out things that have become worse over the last 20 years, because to point out everything that has become better, I would have to list thousands of things.

In the last 20 years there is:
- more obesity
- seems like more mental health issues
- Covid-19 is annoying and some people have health problems from it
- microtransactions, which I hate
- annoying windows you have to close after opening a website
- socialism seems to be on the rise, which is bad
- Social Justice Warriors are sometimes overdoing things and making things seem more problematic than they really are
- some species got near extinction or extinct
- bad, stupid people doing and writing bad things on-line, which they couldn't had done in the 1980s or 1990s
- possibly more negativity, for reasons not well understood by me
That's what I came up with. Everything else got better since 2002. So definitely the positives far outweigh the negatives. The details aren't as important as the overall trends. I may sometimes be wrong about some details, but the overarching trends are clear.

I personally am for wisdom, beauty, strength, peacefulness, abundance, affluence and fun. Against ignorance, ugliness, weakness, disorder, war, poverty, abjection and boredom.

Life on Earth has never been good, at any given time. It was always bad. Full of filth, pain, suffering, death and scarcity. I refuse to believe it will get worse, because it was never good to begin with. We were never at a point when things were actually good. So there's no decline, no collapse. Instead, it will get exponentially better. In the next century, we will be a post-scarcity civilization. People won't decline with age. Nearly everyone will be rich by today's standards (but standards will change) and happy. We will spend most time in VR and robots will be serving us and expanding our civilization, our reach in this Universe exponentially. Believing otherwise makes life unbearable and intolerable, unless you believe in some kind of religion, which I don't. Otherwise, living makes no sense. Our future is great, but there will be some problems along the way, which we have to solve and we will solve.