Ukraine War Watch Thread

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caltrek
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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ibm9000 wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:56 pm There is a "counteroffensive" if there is an offensive. When was the last time we had anything bigger than "limited attacks"? (Attack/counterattack not offensive/defensive war.
Australia and Oceania...
Unless you use the war part. (This one is just another war, we shouldn't be surprised about the things that happen in a war; any war).
We shall have lost something as a species if we are neither surprised or disgusted by "the things that happen in a war."

The best outcome in any conflict is that it is resolved peacefully. The next best is if war fare is confined to military contestants. The worst is when a deliberate tactic of terrorizing a civilian population is employed. To fail to distinguish between the two latter outcomes is an exercise in false equivalency.
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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Reading avoid "surprises".

(Human) History failed. (To distinguish, "Think big Henry").
Last edited by ibm9000 on Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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ibm9000 wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:44 pm Reading avoid "surprises".

(Human) History fail. (To distinguish, "Think big Henry").
Well, if you want to respond by just being totally incoherent. I suppose it would help if I understood to what "big Henry" is alluding.
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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Posted before: Nixon to Kissinger... about killing civilians. (But they were not white).
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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...in a very coherent conversation ...recorded in the White House.
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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ibm9000 wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:06 pm Posted before: Nixon to Kissinger... about killing civilians. (But they were not white).
Another what-about-ism going back 50 years + or - that has little or nothing to do with the situation in the Ukraine?
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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...unless you remember that it started with the war part.
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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ibm9000 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:06 am
Posted before: Nixon to Kissinger... about killing civilians. (But they were not white).
caltrek: Another what-about-ism going back 50 years + or - that has little or nothing to do with the situation in the Ukraine?
ibm9000 wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:24 pm ...unless you remember that it started with the war part.
I don't see how that makes it any less of a what-about-ism. As I wrote earlier:
The best outcome in any conflict is that it is resolved peacefully. The next best is if war fare is confined to military contestants. The worst is when a deliberate tactic of terrorizing a civilian population is employed. To fail to distinguish between the two latter outcomes is an exercise in false equivalency.
Kissinger probably should have been tried as a war criminal. Still, what has that got to do with the war in the Ukraine?

If you look in the Modern History thread, you might notice that on May 25, 2023, I posted an article concerning Kissinger. If you want to write about Kissinger, you should do so by replying to that post. If you have anything of relevance to this thread that also concerns Kissinger, than you need to be more explicit about what the connection is as you see it. Something more than "well there was a war in Vietnam and now there is a war in the Ukraine."

Writing more as a content provider, my argument is that Kissinger's war crimes should not be used as an excuse for Putin's war crimes.
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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To return to the actual war in the Ukraine (and its possible spread into Russia):

Ukraine Military Situation Report
by Can Kasapoğlu
June 4, 2023

Introduction:
(Eurasia Review)1. Iranian Loitering Munitions Threaten Ukraine

The Russian military has intensified its drone and missile salvos, hitting Ukrainian population centers continuously. Recent weeks have seen a dramatic increase in strikes from Iran-manufactured Shahed-131 and Shahed-136 loitering munitions. On May 30, 29 Shahed-131 and Shahed-136 drones targeted Ukraine. During the night of May 28, the Russian military unleashed 35 Shahed-136 drones, along with 40 cruise missiles, while May 26 witnessed 23 Shahed-131 or Shahed-136 striking Ukrainian targets.

The 87 Shahed loitering munitions launched by Russian combat formations within the latest four-day period mark one of the most intense barrages of the conflict thus far. Ukrainian air defenses managed to intercept a large proportion of these. Nonetheless, three dangerous developments bode ill for Kyiv.
First, the Iranian Shahed-131 and Shahed-136 baselines, renamed Geran-1 and Geran-2 by the Russian defense industry, have been receiving upgrades that make them more dangerous. These assets now have more lethal warheads and more powerful engines. They may soon see even further upgrades and modifications, especially regarding sensors and command-control architecture.

Second, the current operational tempo suggests that Iran has been able to supply Russia with a large quantity of loitering munitions. Iran and Russia will also soon establish a joint drone production plant inside Russia, so Putin’s war machine will have no shortage of these weapons systems. Worse, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps can start sending more advanced drones and even ballistic missiles to the Russian military anytime.

Third, Russia is improving its ability to overwhelm Ukraine’s air defenses. By integrating drones into mixed strike packages alongside cruise and ballistic missiles, Russia can use joint missile and drone warfare efforts to launch systematic saturation attacks, the nightmare scenario for any modern air defense system.


The article also discusses drones striking in Moscow, military actions in the frontier towns of Russia’s Belgorod Oblast, and the training of Ukrainian pilots to fly F-16s.

Read more here: https://www.eurasiareview.com/04062023 ... lysis-2/
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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The best possibly outcome is...
...that it never happened, but History disagrees. This is just another war, it all happened before, it will happen again; I am not surprised.
I would say that the notion of targeting civilians in a war has something to do with this war. (Now you can argue... deliberately... only once... yes, but... or whatever else...). All the notions about this one being different are yours. The "excuse" is all yours.

...and you keep dragging it on ...and I kindly follow.
For me, this is just another war; for you, it seems, this war is completely different and nothing in Human History has anything to do with this one and cannot be related to this one.
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